In this week’s vlog, I interview Dr. Marion Nestle, a molecular biologist, nutritionist, and public health advocate. She is the Paulette Goddard Professor of Nutrition, Food Studies, and Public Health Emerita at New York University, and the author of many books, including What to Eat Now, which has just been released in a second edition.

What to Eat Now and How to Think About Food

As Dr. Nestle told me, What to Eat Now is a book for “anyone who eats.” It’s not just about what to put on your plate, but about how to think about food. Standing in the produce section of your supermarket, for example, you might ask: where did this food come from? Who picked it? Is it genetically modified or organic? This book helps you navigate those questions and better understand food policies, systems, and choices.

The Food System Is Not Designed for Your Health

One of the most important points Dr. Nestle makes is that supermarkets have one clear goal: to sell you as much food as possible, at the highest possible price. That means you’re operating inside a system that isn’t designed with your health in mind.

We discussed the growing role of politics in nutrition science. Dr. Nestle shared her concerns about current leadership at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. While she agrees with some positions, like reducing ultra-processed food, she notes that meaningful change is often blocked by powerful industry lobbying.

Understanding the NOVA Scale & Ultra-processed Foods

We spent time discussing the NOVA scale, which classifies foods based on their level of processing, rather than nutrient content. The scale ranges from NOVA 1 (minimally- or unprocessed foods) up to NOVA 4 (ultra-processed foods).

Dr. Nestle agrees with me that NOVA 4 foods are designed to be irresistible, even addictive, and they’re extremely profitable for the companies that produce them. A growing body of research links these foods with a wide range of health challenges, including obesity and cognitive difficulties. People who consume highly processed foods tend to eat more calories than they need, and today, about 75 percent of American adults are overweight or obese.

While Dr. Nestle supports the NOVA framework overall, and especially the emphasis on eating mostly from categories 1 through 3, it does raise an interesting question for those of us in recovery from food addiction. Sugar and flour fall into NOVA 2, but for me and for many of us, those foods are the epitome of ultra-processed.

Portion Distortion, Policy, & the Farm Bill

Another major issue we discussed is portion size. Most people don’t have a good sense of how many calories they’re consuming, and research shows we consistently underestimate portion sizes.

We also talked about the farm bill and how it shapes what farmers grow. Much of the corn grown in the U.S., for example, is used for animal feed or ethanol, leaving less than 10 percent for food and industrial purposes. Soy, meanwhile, is used primarily for diesel fuel and animal feed. Very little is used for human food.

Dr. Nestle would like to see a system more focused on growing food for people rather than commodities for other industries, but she emphasized how deeply entrenched and political the current system is.

Can Consumers Influence Food Policy?

Despite these challenges, Dr. Nestle believes that consumers still have power. She notes, for example, that public pressure has led to changes like increased GMO labelling, and collective action can continue to shape food policy over time.

We wrapped up on a lighter note, talking about Dr. Nestle’s appearances in films like Super Size Me, and her upcoming book, co-written with former Kellogg’s executive Lisa Sutherland, on the cereal industry’s marketing, culture, and policy. It’s set to be released in September, and it sounds fascinating.

A note about this conversation:
This interview explores food policy, which can intersect with political topics. While Bright Line Eating does not typically engage in political discourse, we are sharing this conversation because food policy is an important part of the broader food landscape.

The views expressed by Marion Nestle are her own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Susan or Bright Line Eating, its members, or its team.

To preserve a safe and supportive environment for recovery, we ask that political discussions not be brought into our Support Community.